CoreGraphics Card perhaps?

[ktilford]

I noticed on G-List that someone had flashed a PCI nVidia FX5200 from PC-to-Mac and got it to work. He mentions that this won't work in old-world Macs because of the lack of an old-world firmware patch in the nVidia firmware. Is this something that could be done easily?

Kris Tilford

I will quote here the full G-List posting:

[joevt]

All you have to do is convert the nVidia Mac Firmware to Forth (or at least detokenize it), modify some of the code to work around the Old World Open Firmware bugs, tokenize it back to FCode and flash it.

The Old World Open Firmware bugs and workarounds are well documented and there are tools to tokenize and detokenize rom images, and I made a tool for converting detokenized output to Forth.

Maybe there's some hardware reason why the firmware didn't have the necessary work arounds for Old World Macs? Maybe the firmware has the old Open Firmware workarounds but there is a bug in the implementation or there is some other old Open Firmware problem that needs a work around? The hardest part will be finding the problem.

[ktilford]

Joe V T posted:

[joevt]

I think it won't blow up your computer if you do try. It would be best if you had a New World Mac to see how the card works there (note the Open Firmware properties and IORegistry properties of the card) and then try it in an Old World Mac.

At a minimum, you need to be able to boot into Open Firmware and do something like draw a rectangle on the screen. A second computer and a serial cable is the best way to work in Open Firmware (in case the card doesn't work or a second video card won't work).

[listmicrocode]

I am more than happy to give it a try considering I already bought the card for the express pupose......


http://strangedogs.proboards40.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=experiments&thread=1148376804&page=1

RDP

[dpirinelli]

HI,

I'm one of the folks from STrangedogs and I have worked on both the 5200 and 6200 projects there.

There has been some preliminary work done on getting these to work in Beige machines, as you can see in the above thread if you follow it.

I would like to offer material help in the form of getting PCI Core-Image cards into the hands of people who can do some good with them.

I can tell you this, I have a flashed PCI 6200 card that works quite well in my 450 Mhz Sawtooth. These cards require 10.4.3 or higher to work This is non-negotiable unless you figure out how to use NV40 kext in earlier OSX versions.

In the Sawtooth, the 6200 PCI shows up in "System Profiler" as being both Core Image & Quartz Extreme Enabled. And this is with no hacks other than the card's ROM itself.

Desktop feels quite snappy, and it even attempts the "ripple" effect, but seems to skip many frames. Could be the 450 Mhz too.

Though many of us worked on these projects, it was of course our site genius, Arti, who made much of this possible. It was he who noticed when Apple quietly slipped support into the drivers in 10.4.3. As in, the DID of 6200 cards(221) and even a PCIE bridge chip talking to a 6600 regular or GT (DID f1 & f2) are in the kext. Apple wrote all of these cards into the drivers, with specific entries for a 6600 NV43 PCIE and a 6600 NV43 core talking through a BR02 bridge chip to an AGP bus. One can only speculate about Apple's "Plan A" that evidently included these cards.

I am not a PCI Mac person (anymore) but I know that this 6200 PCI works wonders in Sawtooth, OpenGl Extension Viewer gives it a higher score in 2.0 level than a 5200 AGP. It does NOT work in a G5, sadly. It is slotted for 5V only, I guess? I don't know.

The 5200 & 6200 have allowed Cube to stay "current", at least in terms of Core Image. This was much of the original push to "crack" 5200 ROM.

If there is a way to bring this to PCI Macs, I would like to offer my help. Arti claims that these cards require a G4 upgraded CPU, I don't recall why. One huge bonus of 6200 is that they all run 23" DVI with no issues, something not true of 5200. (Most 5200 cards are DVI limited to an embarassing 1280x1024.) There is no reason to expect PCI cards to be immune to this poor engineering, though it is possible that someone will find a specific card/brand/RAM that works on 1920x1200 DVI. VGA resolutions will be fine.

Anyhow, if there is someone out there with knowledge, brains, time, and gear......I would like to offer this last piece, a "Core Image" PCI card. If "joevt" or anyone else of that level is interested, I have a flashed 6200 that runs A-OK in Sawtooth and I could get a 5200 PCI of some sort and flash it and offer them on extended loan for research. As Arti was able to get to an OF screen with one of these, there is hope.

As I am not wealthy, I can only offer 1 or 2 of these, but if others wish to join, they can bring (in LA area) or send me a 5200 or 6200 PCI card along with stamps to cover return postage.

I will do my best to get a solid ROM tweaked for it on Sawtooth and return. Card can always be returned to functional state on PC if this doesn't work out.

I will NOT be able to help on PCI Mac specific issues. I can show you the portions of ROM that control speed & RAM timings, inits, etc but beyond this Arti is likely to find this project interesting enough to join in to some extent, but I can in no way speak for him.

Anyone in LA area is welcome to bring a card by if they set it up with me in advance. For this specific quest, I will do the flashing/rom tweaking for free. I will accept a $2 donation to cover new EEPROM chip if you insist. Some cards may require tweaking the timings, which can take time, so I can't guarantee 5 minute service. Bring a book...

When we finally "cracked" the 5200 ROM and were able to flash nearly ANY 5200, we quickly & naively posted the ROMs for anyone who wandered by our site to download & try out at home.

This was a year ago, think back....Tiger had come out in April & rendered everything prior to 5200 into the "unsupported" category. Cheap flashed 5200's meant Core Image for the Masses, or at least the few hundred people still trying to coax their Cube or aging G4 into Tiger/CI-goodness. The Radeon 96/97/9800 cards which also supported CI were still expensive & had issues in certain G4s. And were near-impossibilities in Cube. So 5200 suddenley became de-facto Cube/Low-end G4 Tiger/CI card.

The resulting mess will not be repeated.

The Small Print:

1. Any 5200 ROMs I (or other SD members) help you with can become Public Domain, or you can package them with Xpostfacto, etc. 5200 may have better odds of success, I don't know. But I know enough about 52/6200 Mac ROMs to adjust RAM timings, inits, etc. Either remotely, or by having card sent to me for initial flash. I will help you guys craft ROMs for whatever 5200 PCI cards you find (within reason) So there is a good chance we can come up with a nice, solid Core Image card.

5200 has another bonus over 6200, I think there are 5200 PCIs with both keys cut out, ie, they should work in a G5. So, if we jointly develop a 5200 card/ROM combo it could in theory lead to Core-Image PCI cards for G5s. We could write a nice "How-To" with Pix, ROMs for one or two selected (due to high availability & functionality) 52/5500PCI cards. Any such resulting packages could be downloaded from either one of our sites.

2. Any software written by WHOEVER to enable these cards on Pre New World Macs is that person's to do with as they please. If they choose to make it Public Domain, we would be happy to add it to our download page, or it could even be bundled with a 52/5500 PCI flasher package. Proper credit would be given to all parties involved and it could be made available however the developers wish. As a "professional courtesy" we could share ROMs/software between our core members as needed.

3. A "Thank you" to Strangedogs.com somewhere in the software would be appreciated if our cards/etc help. And certainly, anytime a 52/5500 ROM (other than OEM 5200 Ultra) is posted for download, we would need to be credited. If someone wants to flood Ebay with "Beige Tiger/CI" 5200 cards for PCI Macs, go for it. Again we would only ask that a "Thank You" be somewhere in Ebay ad.

4. Due to past abuses I hinted at, any "bleeding edge" ROMs or software loaned to anyone participating in this Beige Tiger/CI effort would remain "for your eyes only" until such time as they become available on our downloads page or their specific author/mod-writer gives permission to have whatever it is made part of Public Domain.

Specifically I refer to ROMs for 6200 cards. While all developments with 5200 & 5500 are instantly Public Domain, we have no desire to have 6200 ROMs out doing the rounds yet. If someone (it won't be me) is able to get 6200s working on Beige G3/G4 machines I will be happy to work with them on a controlled release of this ROM for use in conjunction with their hack/mod/kext/voodoo if it proves a useful combo & could add some life to these "dinosaurs".

If I make you a 6200 PCI card to help add them to Beige roster, I expect that you will respect the efforts that went into the ROM. If I spend three hours fine-tuning RAM timings for a PNY 6200 PCI and see them on Ebay a week later I will lose more faith in humanity.

So to sum up the last ten thousand words:

As a member of Strangedogs.com I would like to offer the fruits of our recent efforts with 52/55/6200 PCI cards to anyone qualified and interested to work on Old-World Mac Core Image. If you read the linked post by Arti (and it makes sense to you) and think that you could add to what he found and have a PCI Mac with a G4 CPU, I WANT you to have access to a Core Image capable PCI card.

Joevt can have one for the asking and I will offer up an additional 5500 PCI & 6200 PCI on indefinite loan to another qualified party. I only ask that only TRULY qualified,equipped, & available people apply for this scholarship/loan. Figure out the puzzle & keep the cards. Not to mention the everlasting thanks of 1,000's of adoring PCI Mac fans !!!!!!

I would also be curious how 5200 PCI in 66Mhz vs 6200 in 33Mhz(don't think 6200 will do 66Mhz) vs 9200 vs 9100, etc goes in a G4 PCI Graphics (Yikes/Yosemite). If someone in LA has a New World PCI G4 Mac and either a 7000 or 9200 PCI and would like to borrow a 5200 & 6200 PCI for comparison, get in touch with me.

I just know that 10.4.7 desktop "feel" is worlds different on 6200 PCI than on 9100 PCI cards in my posession when used in my basic Sawtooth. It is quite possible that CI & QE won't be enabled on Macs that don't have an AGP interface. Who knows. In comparison, the 9100 feels laggy and I can see the windows being re-drawn when I move them. I don't have a 7000 or 9200 PCI to compare with so I am offering to help enable anyone qualified & available for working on PCI/Beige Mac Core Image. It could be a boon to basic desktop "snap" & liven up the whole user experience. Or it could become a Ferral Goseling that grinds the PCI bus to a halt.

Another angle that will be of more interest to some than others is that Arti has included S-Video support for most 6200 cards with a simple "Detect Displays" and that monitor defs exist for NTSC & PAL choices. 52/5500 Video Out will frequently work by using the $20 Apple adapter, but this is not true for all 5200's. Nor have I tried playing a DVD using any of these cards. In theory, it should be worlds better than 7000 era cards at this but won't know for sure til somebody tries.

Again, there is only one way to know for sure. And doesn't somebody want to post the first screen shot from a Beige with "Core Image - Supported" on it?

[ktilford]

I'm interested in this topic again for another reason. On this website:

http://www.macmod.com/software-mods/mac-os/1571-leopard-on-pre-pci

I saw that a PCI FX5200 enabled QE/CI on a B&W under Leopard. I've got a really cheezy PC Hackintosh with PCI only slots. I'm dying to get QE/CI enabled, and have a card on the way, but it may not be quite right, it's an FX5500?

I don't think the Mac ROMs will help any on my Hackintosh because Mac ROM 'd cards won't work in hacks, they must be PC ROM'd cards.

For now, I'm using a Radeon 7000, which I've done every possible system hack to attempt enabling QE and have had no success, although the card does work in 10.5.8. I should be getting the FX5500 any day now, but I've got no reason to think it will work as is.

Any help or advise would be appreciated.